Interview: Roger Clark of Amnesty International

INTERFACE INTERVIEWS

Roger Clark of Amnesty International

Algeria Interface, 28 february 2003

Algiers, 28/02/03 – Roger Clark is head of Amnesty International’s delegation to Algeria. It has just completed its first fact-finding mission there for over two years. Mr Clark talks about the gradual shift in mindset, but calls for action to redress a deeply worrying human rights situation.

Two years have elapsed since your last visit to Algeria. Does that mean the authorities wouldn’t allow you back over that time?
We made several visa applications but they were all rejected. But at least we got answers, which can’t be said of a good many countries where we’re stonewalled by silence. The Algerian authorities would tell us they didn’t have the time or some complications had come up. About a month ago we got the go-ahead to come. Why? Who knows? Maybe it’s pure coincidence that it came just ahead of French President Chirac’s state visit to Algeria [March 2-4].

How did the visit pass off overall? Were you were able to move around freely enough to talk to the people you wanted to?
We didn’t have any major problems and obstacles weren’t put in our way. Still, on some of our travels, especially outside Algiers, the security forces escorted us. Two people refused to meet us because they took fright at the sight of the escort. We view that as restricting our right to see who we want.

What are your first thoughts on how human rights have evolved in Algeria?
Our first observation was that it is relatively more open, which makes for freer debate in society at large. The authorities showed a willingness to talk and greater transparency. But all that was really just a pose. The situation on the ground is very worrying and hasn’t really improved. Amnesty International has always considered impunity a central issue, and it’s still there, as serious and urgent as ever. Until justice is done, that’s how it will stay. The problem is that crimes committed by the security forces, the GLD militia [anti-Islamist militia armed by the state] and armed groups go unpunished. We’re talking about abductions, murders and other rights violations. The relatives of the missing people we talked to are still grieving. They don’t know whether their loved-ones are dead or in prison. How many people have disappeared? Some say 4,000, others 7,000. It doesn’t matter, ultimately. A single forced disappearance would be a violation of human rights that deserved to be addressed. There are seldom investigations and the few there have been have never resulted in anything. We petitioned Farouk Ksentini [presidential human rights commissioner] and he really had the best of intentions. No more, though. But we did get one concession: Mr Ksentini assured us that if the UN working group on forced disappearances wished to come to Algeria it would be welcome. But maybe his words were just a veneer.

What about torture?
It’s still practised widely against people being held in detention, especially if they’re thought to have links with terrorism. We talked to torture victims and lawyers who told us electricity was used.

What is your view on President Bouteflika’s Civil Harmony [Concorde Civile in French] policy which grants conditional amnesty to people once implicated in terrorist acts?
We oppose it because it prevents justice being done and legalises impunity. And its terms of reference are too hazy. Take, for example, the [limited] period for which it was in force [but amnesties have been granted since it expired]. There is talk of pardon as a path to reconciling Algerians. But there can only be pardon and reconciliation once justice is done. Some other mechanism needs to be found along the lines of South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Committee.

You were able to visit Tizi Ouzou in Kabylia where unrest has continued since the violent clashes of the Black Spring in 2001 between local people and gendarmes. What were your impressions and what did you learn?
Kabylia is one of the most disturbing regions in Algeria. We can’t pass judgement on the violence there because we weren’t there, but we kept fully informed and we feel it once again raises the issue of impunity. The commission of enquiry headed bylawyer Mohand Issad illustrates my point. It found that the security forces had used wartime ammunition against protesters and exercised excessive, abusive violence. Don’t forget over 100 people were killed and they were all unarmed civilians. But none of the alleged perpetrators was prosecuted or appeared in a court of law. The Ministry of Justice told us that 23 gendarmes had been tried and sentences handed down ranged from two years in prison to suspended sentences of just a few months. But nobody has ever mentioned these verdicts, not even the Algerian press. Either there’s been a serious breakdown in communication or the trials never took place. In Tizi Ouzou we met relatives of some of the victims, civil society representatives and lawyers defending protesters being held in custody. What they told us squared perfectly with the findings of the Issad report. Local people also said that abusive treatment had been meted out to detainees and legal court proceedings didn’t follow legal procedure.

Would you describe Kabyle detainees as prisoners of conscience?
Too early to say. If they have committed acts of violence, Amnesty International can’t declare them prisoners of opinion, our mission statement is clear on that point. The same applies to the leaders of the former FIS [Islamic Salvation Front] held in custody. It’s obviously arbitrary detention but we can’t classify them as prisoners of opinion.

In 2000 you asked to meet Algerian army officers, especially generals, but without success. Did you make the same request this time round?
No. The last time Algerian officials were so freaked out that we didn’t try it again. But we will some time in the future. We haven’t lost heart. In Rwanda, Guatemala and Cambodia we had many setbacks before we finally won the day. We set precedents there, so why can’t we do the same here?

Do you harbour hope for a better future for human rights in Algeria?
Like I said, mindsets have evolved, but the issue is how to translate that into action. There has to be political will. The law theoretically affords individuals protection, but that’s not enough. Torture must stop and torturers must be prosecuted. It’s time to do away with obstacles to the rule of law. Everybody who speaks out in its favour must be heard and listened to. One of our priorities in Algeria is to educate on human rights and build civil society. I like to think of Amnesty International as the voice of those who can’t speak and a light for those who can’t see. We’ll be back.

Interviewed by Christian Lecomte